Posted by John Tchoe on June 26, 19101 at 13:18:38:

In Reply to: Question? posted by Noctillucent on June 25, 19101 at 22:42:39:

1. The mind IS the brain. The terms are logically equivalent and interchangeable.

<JT>Well, of the three choices you gave me, this is the closest to my position, though I'd almost prefer #2. It's just that the phrase "wholly caused and determined by brain's physical states" gives me pause.

The portion of definition #2 which states that the mind is "determined by brain's physical states" is agreeable. In fact, I'd say that the mind is defined by the brain's physical state! But to say that the brain causes the mind implies that the mind is a pive and separate(!) effect, a product, of mechanisms within the brain.

A brain causes or produces a piece of writing, such as this reply. Take away the brain, and the writing continues to exist.

The mind, however, cannot exist without a brain in which to reside. In this sense, it is better to say that the brain is the mind, or that the mind is the brain.

I think when we're talking about the mind, we're talking about specific parts of the brain, namely the cortex. We're not counting the limbic system and thalamus, etc., parts of the brain responsible for automatic functions.

If we were to take a brain and sc away the gray matter, leaving behind only enough to support basic biological functions, would this organism have a mind or consciousness?

If you argue yes, then you believe that the consciousness or mind is separate and independent from the brain. If you argue no, then you agree that the brain is, in a sense, the mind. But to be more specific, a mind is the physical state of the brain.</JT>

Follow Ups:

• Re: Brain = mind, sort of. Noctillucent 22:39:47 6/26/101 (20)
  • Re: Brain = mind, sort of. John Tchoe 11:26:24 6/27/101 (19)
    • Re: Brain = mind, sort of. Noctillucent 09:24:21 6/28/101 (18)
      • Re: Brain = mind, sort of. John Tchoe 11:21:35 6/28/101 (17)
        • Re: Brain = mind, sort of. Noctillucent 10:30:51 6/29/101 (16)
          • Re: Brain = mind, sort of. John Tchoe 11:51:35 7/02/101 (15)
            • Re: Brain = mind, sort of. Noctillucent 23:46:05 7/02/101 (0)
            • Re: Brain = mind, sort of. Noctillucent 23:38:55 7/02/101 (13)
              • Material vs. arrangement. John Tchoe 13:51:27 7/03/101 (12)
                • Re: Material vs. arrangement. Noctillucent 20:16:20 7/03/101 (11)
                  • Now we're getting somewhere! John Tchoe 03:24:38 7/04/101 (10)
                    • Whoa Noctillucent 20:09:22 7/05/101 (4)
                      • There is no spoon. John Tchoe 12:04:12 7/06/101 (3)
                        • Re: There is no spoon. Noctillucent 07:36:39 7/10/101 (2)
                          • One step forward, two steps back. John Tchoe 12:39:22 7/10/101 (1)
                            • My reply at the top. Noctillucent 09:14:56 7/13/101 (0)
                    • Re: Now we're getting somewhere! John Tchoe 03:31:56 7/04/101 (4)
                      • Re: Now we're getting somewhere! Noctillucent 20:18:11 7/05/101 (3)
                        • Psychology. John Tchoe 12:08:44 7/06/101 (2)
                          • Re: Psychology. Noctillucent 18:47:30 7/12/101 (1)
                            • Re: Psychology. John Tchoe 15:05:24 7/13/101 (0)

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